The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Are you serious? This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. But only at long range. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. If you liked it, feel free to sub. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. There is a great deal of difference in comparing the significance of gun handling of two medium tanks and that of a lightweight TD and a heavyweight medium tank. Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. T92, T114 are the most common culprits but yes there are more. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. 3 . Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. Sohow exactly do I do that? On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. To say that Germany suffers over this is wrong. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. And their armor won't save them. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. Powered by Invision Community. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. That ammo should not be stock! Unfornatly the 105mm Tiger II was phased out. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. Welcome to r/Warthunder. From my observations, Germany only seems to be one of the most popular single nation selections that people make and many of the people being looked at are often very low level (Level 11s are common, even at 5.X). It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Incorrect in so many levels. Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. If your going to pull the hvars are the best thing out their it shows how little you know. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. His portfolio includes five books and several hundred historical articles.". If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. 7. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. You can pen various parts of the of them and can with apcr. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. Relative merit is in play here. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made during the cold war and after) in battles? 1. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Well you know what they say, the turtle always wins. I think that is what contributes in combination with what you mentioned for the low WR of Germans at the 5.7-6.7 BR range. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? Just an observation maybe its just me. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. Sohow exactly do I do that? What is the Caernarvon? How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Frontally there are no easy weakspots. The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. Walter Dorn. Penetrations do just little damage. There is big IF in virtually every of your arguments. And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. Noone does the same with panthers. You can go through things but often times you die. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. The basic problem with this grievance is that people figure they need to have a vehicle as fast as their enemies to win--you dont. And here comes the issue with uptiers. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Which is situational and works only on several maps. The stock ammo for them is useless! Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. In that experience, I have found that. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. Sort of 'neutral good ' position Tiger I because they know that there will be probably... 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That is what contributes in combination with what you mentioned for the WR...
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