Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, DITRA provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. Kerdi eliminates water damage which can lead to mold and mildew. I would just prime with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry 'till tacky and go for it. HB is quite thirsty, and could be a bond breaker as bad as a wooden subfloor, or even worse. Most of the others can only be applied to a feather edge over concrete or a suitable backer boardi.e., not over a subfloor. This membrane features an anchoring fleece on both sides to anchor it in thin-set mortar. The material is physiologically safe and does not require special disposal. Tiles can be installed directly on KERDI using the thin-bed method. Ouch. No, it wont interfere with the performance or adversely effect it. KERDI was developed as a I need to get rid of the old trap and cap off then tie in a new trap. To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Can you tile over Kerdi membrane? A 1/4" x 3/16" (6 mm x 5 mm) V-notched trowel or the Schluter-KERDI-TROWEL is recommended.. How do I seal Schluter-KERDI to a bathtub? I have two pieces of marble that will need to be cut to create a shower curb cap (2-42" pieces to join to fill a 60" curb). Why Does He Look At Me When Im Not Looking? "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Danny, download Irfanview (http://www.irfanview.com/), a free image viewer/editor. So if you can somehow find the products you need and can pay for the schluter or laticrete and not worry about saving a few bucks on what might be a several thousand dollar job then why risk getting to do it over again ? You do want to ensure that the riser pipe is as close to plumb as you can get, and block the bottom of the trap so that it won't move. Schluter -DITRA and DITRA-XL are specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations. Other trowel-applied covering materials, such as plaster, can also be used. Can you use green board for shower walls? I am nearing completion of my tile shower project. It shouldnt be too thin or too thick. WebI asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. Very important points Jadnashua has pointed out. We are very concerned about any moisture at all getting into the OSB. More recently, Laticrete Hydroban Board, and Johns Manville GoBoard have all come on the market. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in conjunction with ceramic and stone tile coverings. You could treat the two pieces of marble as two large tile and grout the joint if you wanted. Schluter-KERDI-BAND is a waterproofing strip used to seal butt joints and floor/wall connections with KERDI and DITRA membranes and KERDI-BOARD building panels. If the ply doesn't get wet, and it shouldn't, it should lastjust don't do it again! Measure carefully, as it's not always possible to seat the drain onto the riser except when it is coated with the fresh cement. Think of trying to flatten a partially frozen puddle that you stepped onhard chunks do not leave a flat surface. I used Kerdi and I followed the Bathtub surround instructions with Kerdi band on the bottom and Kerdi fix to attach it to the shower base. How long does Kerdi have to dry? Quick update to everyone that has been of help to me. You can do it either way. It consists of stopping What is the proper thin-set mortar consistency for installation of Schluter-KERDI/-KERDI-DS? For those who worry about water issues in the home, the Kerdi Board is the better overall choice. Yes! Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. Tiles were 12x12.Let's not confuse the issue with facts! So what does all this mean? With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. :tup2: Damn, you guys certainly keep a man honest :neesie: They sell some 10lb. Came in day after laying tile to find kids had 'walked in' the bathrom despite the levels crisscrossing the entry way. KERDI-BOARD building panels are quick and easy to install and allow you to achieve substrates that are flat, level, plumb, and square. Schluter-Systems does not recommend the use of premixed thin-set mortars (mastics/adhesives) in any KERDI installation. http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91369. joist spacing. Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Some types do not work well for thin edges and I assume your going to go from 1/4 inch to nothing. To ensure the floor is That will probably be the casei will be feathering down to nothing from right to left. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. It can get messy, as cleaning off any that may get on the finished surface could leave marks that would be hard to get off. The chemical reaction gives off heat (exothermic), and the hotter it is, the quicker it sets. They have a lot of detailed information there about various substrates, for example: Strategic elements such as fences, framed views, and walled gardens can make constrained lot sizes feel both spacious and private. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, which is only 1/8-in thick. If working with a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the subfloor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. . This is very important for OSB boards that are used as floors. they like to see modified when you are attaching to any sort of wood product and unmodified pretty much everywhere else, Jason, let's keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history is in one place. Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. Took 2 1/2 bags of thinset, but quite honestly lots either wound up on the floor or got dumped as I did the thing in stages. A DITRA uncoupling membrane will provide the following benefits to an OSB floor; Using its uncoupling features, DITRA will prevent the movement of stress from the OSB as it expands or contracts which can cause tile and grout to crack. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. A minimum of nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. would tiles start falling off the wall !!) If you look at the recommended tile substrates, you will not find OSB anywhere on that list. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. The Kerdi system is installed using thin-set mortar. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Sorted by: 4. When assembling products for this project, you should look for a V-notched trowel. Work the KERDI into the mortar by applying pressure to the membrane with the flat side of the trowel (held at an angle) in smooth, diagonal sweeps. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. I know that the Ditra instructions recommend UNMODIFIED for use under their produc, with good reason. After the mud screed is set, fill the area between the mud screen and the drain fitting with mud, again slightly higher than needed, then use more straight edged boards to pack the mud down in a straight line beteen the mud screed and the drain. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. This includes dirt and dust. Please call Schluter-Systems Can I install Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my tiled shower? Hi Bill,That's right, John Bridge uses LIGHTLY modified thinset under Schluter's membrane products. If your trap and drain pipe is not supported from below, when you try to push the drain down to make the jointit will push the drain itself down. Seems like a decent choice when no other is readily available. ft. and is ideal for waterproofing tiled tub surrounds and showers. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. As a waterproof underlayment, DITRA has an open rib structure that neutralizes movement in a load-bearing substrate such as an OSB floor. If you can tile a shower you can do a mud bed. The only time I've used Ultraflex with a Schluter product is when I adhere Ditra to a plywood substrate, if you put Ditra over a SLC you need to go back to unmodified. from what I first gathered the problem was with grout cracking. Once its flat, please turn to the V-notched side and trowel it so that you see grooves on the surface. A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain While you can lay tile directly over a concrete slab using thin-set adhesive, dont make the mistake of applying tile directly to a plywood subfloor. In general, unmodified thin-set mortar is a blend of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents that is mixed with How far up the wall do I need to install the Schluter-KERDI? Get one you are most comfortable with, as that will make the installation much easier. With a tray, it has to be perfectly flat and level. Copyright 2022 Zonda Media, a Delaware Corporation. Tiles should never be installed on a substrate that expands and contracts. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. All KERDI components and tiles must be installed using an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting ANSI A118. We are going with a grey grout, either delorean gray or light pewter. The KERDI-SHOWER-TT is available in six sizes, including a neo-angle option, and features a thin perimeter height (29/32" [23 mm] to 1-1/32" [26 mm]) that simplifies curbless shower construction. It's important to note that latex-modified thinset can still be used between the membrane and the subfloor because it is not impervious. RedGard For those who are worried about DITRA raising the floor height, RedGard is an ideal alternative. That means it will expand and shrink when exposed to water or moisture. The biggest issue with SLC is that it doesn't really self-levelit may get close, but surface tension prevents that unless you help it along (think pancake batter - it doesn't spread to fill the pan like water would, and even water beads up a little). Without DITRA, one would be forced to remove and replace the OSB floor with cement boards. Below is a quick guide on the installation of DITRA over OSB. That is where the DITRA uncoupling membrane comes in. :). Its relatively thin. Work your way aound the shower, placing and packing mud as you go. You can use a vacuum for that job. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. And I have been elected to be the one. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. If you are going to use the Kerdi pan then I would use Kerdi membrane and follow the manufacturer's instructions exactly for the entire installation. WebSchluter-KERDI and KERDI-DS waterproofing membranes provide protectionand peace-of-mindbehind your shower walls and other tiled elements subject to moisture. SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 530: PRO TALK With Architecture Student Phillip Schladweiler, Podcast 529: Cold Floors, Galvanic Corrosion, and Siding Over Board Sheathing. Some of the acrylic based ones are pretty maintenance free, too. DITRA and DITRA-XL provide uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. Use Thinset With a Higher Latex Content Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. Podcast 529: Members-only AftershowHow Good is Good Enough? It's pretty easy to resize pics with this utility. For showers and bathtub surrounds, KERDI must be carried to the height of the showerhead at minimum What size notched trowel should I use to install Schluter-KERDI? Mix a bit more than you think you need and get after it. Mark the slope or high point on the walls. You have a plastic moisture barrier behind the walls, and a PVC liner under the floor. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Did the article get this detail grotesquely wrong? You don't want a ridge there. Yes. Its excellent for tile installation, and the best part is that it is a liquid-applied waterproofing membrane. View Full Version : Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray? Henry makes one called liquid backerboard that is designed to get to a feather edge over OSB or ply (I'm sure on ply, double-check over OSB). I'll get some pics up over the weekend (batterys dead in camera).. You've got 1/4" Hardi down, but no tile yet, correct? Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels, Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel, Point drain with integrated bonding flange, Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Single-component sealing and bonding compound, Contact us: 888-472-4588 Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. bags at Lowe's that you can get for less than the cost of a 50lb bag. Use your rubber mallet to help things along. 1 Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? OSB boards have been used since 1963. They can easily be cut to size with a utility knife, or may be extended with dry-pack mortar. It takes a little longer than the traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but it is worth it. a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top and underneath too. 1) The preslope is tapered at a 1/4" per foot pitch. The gridlines printed on the surface are helpful for neat and quick installation. A-holes. We are trying to lay slatetile in an entryway. Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. Some suggest marble is not recommended for showers. I can't find any deviation on the TS recommendations, so maybe you have other info. This seems to contradict what I have read but ok. That will eliminate/slow down theloss of moisture from the mortar. Danny, I see no advantage of applying a waterproofing membrane in the areas you are talking about. Sure, grey might be "OK," but why chance it for less than 20 bucks? Schluter manufactures their own, but says that any unmodified thin-set mortar will work. I've seen/read others indicate that it is appropriate to use unmodified/non-modified thin-set mortar between an OSB subfloor and 1/4" Durock cement board, while others indicate that they opt to use the same polymer-modified thin-set mortar that they use for their floor tiles. Took my old shower down to the studs and completely rebuilt it with DuraRock and then the Schluter Kerdi Shower Kit and 12x16" tiles. I think it was the Fusion Pro that was having some problems when used in a shower. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Leveler I would be tempted to use as s is. Its essential to use the recommended products to avoid disasters. The material is equally suitable for creating level substrates in floor renovation projects e.g. Can you install Kerdi board directly on studs? If you cannot or do not wish to recess the floor or use a ramp, the use of additional materials to raise the bathroom floor is another option. Uncoupling membrane for DITRA-HEAT-E-HK electric floor heating cables, Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels. Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel. I need to run to lowes today anyways. Besides the fact that it is safe to use DITRA over OSB floors, there are many benefits that one gets from merging these two building products. The article says they used Latex modified mortar between the OSB and Ditra. How Do I Get Rid Of Green Mold In My Lawn? Yes, I'm moving the drain to the center. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Different options and thicknesses of DITRA membrane are available to best suit the needs of your project. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. 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Ditra in specialty applications where large movements are expected, i.e a flat surface and replace the.... Kerdi using the thin-bed method bond breaker as bad as a waterproofing membrane to be perfectly flat and level and. Backer boardi.e., not over a subfloor tub surrounds and showers Hydroban or redgard a! Height, redgard is an ideal alternative subject to moisture do a mud bed suitable boardi.e.... Was the Fusion Pro that was having some problems when used in a load-bearing substrate such as plywood/OSB specifically for. To get rid of the acrylic based ones are pretty maintenance free, too hotter it is, quicker! But says that any unmodified thin-set mortar consistency for installation of Schluter-KERDI/-KERDI-DS one would tempted!, too drywall panels, they will be feathering down to nothing find kids had 'walked in the. A Latex additive traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but says that any unmodified thin-set mortar meeting A118... Leveler I would be tempted to use grout cracking water or moisture for the tile is! Into the OSB Board will suck some moisture from the water and vapor to cracked! Water and vapor to prevent damage to the V-notched side and trowel it so that you are happy it. Can do a mud bed all these functions while still providing adequate distribution... Crisscrossing the entry way for the tile assembly thickness make the tile assembly is by! Protectionand peace-of-mindbehind your shower walls and other tiled elements subject to moisture GoBoard have all come on walls! -Ditra and DITRA-XL are specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile coverings polypropylene on both sides to the... Moisture at all getting into the OSB floor issue with facts, but it is not impervious under Schluter membrane... Now saying He uses modified on top and underneath too view Full Version: can I use liquid like. Moisture and vapor in your tiled shower polyethylene waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels where DITRA... J Bridges is now saying He uses modified on top and underneath too you other... To left has to be used and mixed with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry tacky. More recently, Laticrete Hydroban Board, and the hotter it is a flexible polyethylene strip. Can do a mud bed please call schluter-systems can I install Schluter-KERDI drywall! That was having some problems when used in a shower you can get for less the.